Village Web Site Forum

Joan M. Tindale
Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:15
Malsis School to build 46 homes (including affordable) on its Cross Hills site!
Public event to be held on Tuesday 30th July between 3.30 p.m. and 7.30 p.m. for more information and plans. (Thought Malsis was in Sutton Parish until next year's boundary changes?)
Terry Longbottom
Thursday, July 25, 2013 14:30
The beck behind Malsis forms the boundary between Sutton and Glusburn in the last 400 years its position has remained static. Malsis for the time being is in Sutton, someone wants to inform the school Governors.
Maybe they are trying to disassociate there planning application from the last planning ruling with regard to the infilling of the green corridors between Sutton and adjacent villages.
Or maybe Malsis owns land in Crosshills.
Joan M. Tindale
Thursday, July 25, 2013 21:26
Or maybe the land in question IS in Cross Hills, and Malsis Hall in Sutton. Pls watch out for plans on Craven D. Council's "Current Applications" - they should be on soon. Everyone has a chance to go to their open event anyway.
Paul Wilkinson
Friday, July 26, 2013 06:51
There are more details in the Craven Herald.

There's no doubt that Malsis School is within the Sutton-in-Craven parish boundary and as far as I can tell it's going to stay that way until at least 2018. The proposed boundary changes that were to take effect in 2012 were postponed, and the Boundary Commission for England web site currently states:

"With effect from 23 April 2013, section 6 of the Electoral Registration and Administration Act 2013 postponed the next boundary review until 2018. The Boundary Commission for England has therefore ceased working on the 2013 Review and will no longer be reporting to the Secretary of State in autumn 2013."

The Dog and Gun still shows its address as Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven but Malsis School lists its address as Cross Hills.

Howard Barrett
Friday, July 26, 2013 08:46
In the "olden days" when trains were the major form of transport, I believe it was common for those organisations that were dependent on visitors or customers coming from afar to broadcast themselves as being where the nearest station was, providing it was in relatively close proximity. Having a local station could have been a consideration in whether a prospect visited or not.

Landis's address was Crosshills at one time. I don't know whether it still is. Malsis also fits the bill, if indeed that is the reason.
Joan M. Tindale
Friday, July 26, 2013 20:58
So will Sutton Parish Council be dealing with the planning application or Glusburn and Cross Hills Parish Council I wonder? It was the same with an application for Lumb Mill (now withdrawn) - Lumb Mill is a listed building in Cowling BD22 and always has been, but was given as sited in Cross Hills BD20?
Also on a 1610 map "Mawsis" seems to be an area and maybe not a building - anyone any ideas on this pls? And is Malsis School listed Grade II* as Carr Head Hall and Long Croft- both in Cowling?
Paul Wilkinson
Saturday, July 27, 2013 16:45
I thought the boundary changes had been delayed by the government, but the Clerk to Sutton Parish Council has informed me that the Craven District boundary changes took place in 2012. The following were moved out of Sutton and in to Glusburn and Cross Hills:

West End House, Malsis School, Malsis
Low Barn, Malsis
Coachman’s Barn, Malsis
Stable Cottage, Malsis
Pepperpot House, Malsis
The Lodge, Malsis School
The Mistal, Malsis
The Dog & Gun, Malsis
Malsis School, Malsis
1,2,3,4,5,6,8 High Malsis
High Malsis Farm House
High Malsis Farm Cottage.

Terry Longbottom
Sunday, July 28, 2013 10:51
Minutes of the Meeting of Sutton-in-Craven Parish Council held in the
Senior Citizens Centre, North Street on Monday 7th February 2011

5. Craven District Council Community Governance Review 2010/11 – Final Proposals
5.1 Boundary Changes
The Malsis area to the west of Glusburn is located in the Sutton-in-Craven Parish. Much of the area, together
with other properties to the south of Malsis towards Dick Lane, has greater community identity and interest,
with the Parishes of either Glusburn and Cross Hills or Cowling.

Comments received from residents – no objections

Final Proposal – That, with effect from 1st April 2012, the boundaries between Cowling, Glusburn and Cross
Hills and the Sutton-in-Craven Parishes are re-aligned as shown on attached plan.

P.S. I sincerely apologise to the head of Malsis school for my earlier remarks . it now seems that instead of protecting the green buffer zones around Sutton we just give them away.

Glusburn many years ago closed its only pub. Cowling ,this year closed its last remaining pub. No problem they can have one of ours.

For the parish council to say "no objections" from the residents is an untruth some objected at the time, others would have had they known.
Joan M. Tindale
Sunday, July 28, 2013 11:23
Am still under the impression that the boundary changes do not take place until 1st April 2014, but am going to CDC on Tuesday and will ask direct.
Paul Wilkinson
Sunday, July 28, 2013 15:45
The Clerk to Sutton Parish Council has asked me to put up the following:

Please also refer to the following dated minutes prior to February 2011.

The draft proposals were put forward by Craven District Council and the Parish Council can make comment.

Please note that following comments from the Parish Council who did not initially agree with the Boundary Changes and as a result it was agreed along with Glusburn and Cowling Parish Council that Craven District Council contact all the residents who resided in the affected areas. Information was publicly advertised on CDC websites and notice boards.

Following the consultation the Parish Council contacted Craven District Council who had received no objections over the boundary changes and thus the comment in February's minutes “no objections from residents”.

July 2010

Community Governance Review 2010/11

A schedule updating in summary form the issues that are likely to result in Draft/Proposals/Recommendations under the Community Governance Review. There will be a period of three months to respond to the detailed proposal when the Draft proposals/Recommendations document is published in mid to late August.

October 2010

Community Governance Review 2010/11 – Draft Proposals - Consultation

The Draft Proposals for the Community Governance Review have now been prepared and are available for consultation.

Sutton-in-Craven Parish Councils summary of comments was omitted from the draft review. The clerk contacted Colin Iveson to inform him of the omission. The following reply was received:

“I should be grateful if you and Sutton-in-Craven Parish Council would accept my apologies for not including the comments of Sutton-in-Craven on the Draft Proposals. I look forward to further comments and will ensure that they are included in the Final Proposals stage for the Audit and Governance committee.”

November 2010

Community Governance Review 2010/11

Following members comments sent to the Democratic Services Manager at Craven District Council it has been noted to await further comments on Draft Proposal 1.18 - residents comments on boundary proposals.

December 2010

Community Governance Review 2010/11

Proposal of Boundary changes to Sutton-in-Craven. Following the Council’s comments copies of the

proposals have now been sent out to the relevant properties for consultation. A considerable area of land in the western part of Sutton-in-Craven Parish will be split between Cowling and Glusburn and Cross Hills Parishes.

To Glusburn and Cross Hills:

- West End House, Malsis School, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- The Lodge, Malsis School, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- Low Barn, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- Coachman’s Barn, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- Stable Cottage, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- Pepperpot House, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- The Lodge, Malsis School, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- The Mistal, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- The Dog and Gun Inn, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- Malsis School, Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 High Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- High Malsis Farm House, High Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- High Malsis Farm Cottage, High Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven

- 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 New Hall Farm, Cowling

- Crag End Farm Cottage, Cowling

- The Farlings, Crag End Farm, Cowling

- Crag End Farm, Cowling

To Cowling

- New Hall Farm House, Cowling

- Lower Lane Ends cottage, Cowling

- Lower Lane Ends Farm, Cowling

- The Bungalow, Lane Ends Farm, Cowling

- Brush Farm, Sutton-in-Craven

- Summerseat Farm, Cowling

The Parish Council will make a final decision based on the views of the residents but initially feel the boundary should remain as it is.

The Dog and Gun Inn started life as a farmhouse that served travellers. In the 1900’s local landowner Sir John Horsfall would not allow pubs in the nearby village of Glusburn and the Dog & Gun was located just over the beck in Malsis, Sutton-in-Craven.

January 2011

Boundary Changes

The Clerk contacted Colin Iveson, Head of Democratic Services with regard to resident’s views over the proposed boundary changes. ’All residents who reside in the affected area were notified of the proposals by letter. No objections have been raised.

Terry Longbottom
Sunday, July 28, 2013 23:26
Mr Warin of Dog & Gun Farm did object to the move and still objects.

To put right the statement regarding the Dog and Gun Inn - it is an old coaching house and dates back before the Blackburn-Addingham & Cocking End thrust was constructed, to when the road came down Green Lane, turned right on past the Dog and Gun then up the road past Carr Head to the next coach house at Black Lane Ends and on to Colne.

The pub that Sir John objected to was the Red Lion - it was situated directly opposite his office in Hayfield Mills, he closed it down. Before the Hayfield Mill fire the sign was stored in the mill attic.
Joan M. Tindale
Monday, July 29, 2013 11:24
Thanks for all information, v. interesting.
New Hall moving to Cowling Parish - New Hall now includes 8 dwellings, not one.
All the others are understandable- although Cowling has 16 dwellings on the tops- our most ancient area- which have agreed to move into Lothersdale (shock horror!) Most of these are now converted farm buildings which belong to around 4 of our ancient farms with lots of COWLING history- a couple of us did try to complain at the time! No good!
Pls. check the Glusburn SHLAA sites for land availability for the Craven housing plan -to be found on CDC site - land near Malsis SCO58, SCO60, and SCO61!
The full map of our Cowling sites should be in our August newsletter this week,
although I think there have already been open events in all villages. Are the majority of residents ever interested until it actually hits their own patch?

Robin Longbottom
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 06:27
It appears to me that we have become slaves to the bizarre allotment of addresses and post codes by the Post Office and that the proposed boundary changes are, in part, a consequence of their introduction. Historically Malsis was a manor and township in its own right and is mentioned in the Domesday Book. It appears to have been merged with Sutton in the 13th C, possibly as a consequence of being unable to sustain its own manorial cornmill. Eastburn merged with Steeton about the same time. As a village it may also have suffered catastrophically during the Black Death (1348-50) and never recovered.

Of course one of the problems in associating Malsis with Sutton is that there is now no longer a direct road link, the only one being via Crosshills and Glusburn. The old link along Bent Lane and through High Malsis appears to have been abandoned by the 19th C.

Despite the modern day difficulties in associating Sutton with Malsis it will be a great shame to carve it up between Cowling and Glusburn. After all in another generation or so post codes, at least, may be a thing of the past.

Perhaps Malsis should re-establish itself in its own right. It has a fine hall and a pub what more can it want?
Paul Wilkinson
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 07:55
I'm still confused - the SHLAA map on the feedback form given out at the settlement event last week shows SC058 and SC061 (but not SC060) as Sutton sites.
Joan M. Tindale
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 12:16
Taken from "History of Malsis" by John Holt -
In 1086 an entry in the Domesday Book -a former building Malsis was the Manor House of SUTTON.
Sutton and Malsis remained connected throughout the Middle Ages ... etc.
Terry Longbottom
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 14:29
Can anyone tell me the true reason for the boundary alterations and just who made them. was it an overwhelming desire for some people to become Cowineerders and Glusburn dwellers, or a great rush to get out of Sutton whatever the reason they have made a proper dogs leg out of a uniform boundary. how can it be called Sutton fields when the fields are in Glusburn.
Paul Wilkinson
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 16:29
The history of Sutton written in 1927 by Nellie Stell has an interesting chapter on Malsis.
Robin Longbottom
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 17:05
With regard to Sutton and Malsis having been two separate manors I would refer readers to the article - A Township of Two Manors - in the History section of this website. The Copley's were not permanent resident lords of the manor houses at Malsis or Sutton but lived at Batley Hall, Batley. Both Malsis Hall and the manor house in Sutton were used during their perambulations and also as dwellings for heirs apparent and other offspring. The Sutton manor house was disposed of in 1543 on the death of John Copley, it is presumed that this is the house attached to the King's Arms or a previous one on the same site. His son, Alvery Copley snr of Batley Hall rebuilt or extended Malsis Hall during his tenure. The hall was sold by Alvery Copley's grandson, also called Alvery, shortly before his death in 1631.

Locally the Copley's also held the Manors of Cowling and Oakworth and had interests in Oxenhope.
Joan M. Tindale
Tuesday, July 30, 2013 19:39
Hahaha - anyway I called in at Malsis and told them they are actually in Sutton!
Terry Longbottom
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 07:21
Come on Joan, you went to Skipton CDC. AND?????
Joan M. Tindale
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 16:55
Found at CDC that Malsis have got 2 of their 3 SHLAA (land available for building) on Sutton's map, and one site on the Cross Hills map - all maps are available to download from the CDC site (takes a while). One of the Malsis plans for the new housing -a "small" estate- is in the small field to the left of the tradesmen's entrance - just across from Lumb Mill and Lumb Mill House (which are in Cowling!)
Going back home now - we've enough going on up here!
I have made enquiries about the boundary changes situation to our Cty. Cllr.

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